Episode 20 – Recovering From Being Shot– Jordan Robison Follow-up

Jon Becker: My name is Jon Becker.

For the past four decades, I've dedicated my life to protecting tactical operators. During this time, I've worked with many of the world's top law enforcement and military units. As a result, I've had the privilege of working with the amazing leaders who take teams into the world's most dangerous situations.

The goal of this podcast is to share their stories in hopes of making us all better leaders, better thinkers, and better people.

Welcome to The Debrief!

Okay, so, Jordan, after last week's episode, I got a lot of phone calls and emails and text messages saying, how's Jordan? What happened to Jordan? So why don't we just start there? How's Jordan?

Jordan Robison: Today? Yeah, Jordan's doing good. I'm a full time student right now, which is definitely a complete change of pace for me. Tumbling again, going back and not being who I used to be, but trying to figure out who I'm going to be in the future and making those plans. But no, I'm doing well right now. Full time student. Really invested in that. Really invested in my studies right now. Planning for the future.

Body doing pretty good. Lower back sucks. I'm pretty sure that applies to, like, 60% of cops anybody wears a vest. But, yeah, since my hips are a little uneven now, which I'm sure we'll get into. Lower backs pretty rough. The leg on cold days, you know, you can feel it. Arms. If I move something super, super heavy, I can feel it. But overall, I know a lot of guys get it worse, so there's no, no complaints from me, surprisingly. Just sometimes your back sucks and just focused on school, but overall doing well.

Jon Becker: And now you're medically retired.

Jordan Robison: Yes. Yeah.

Jon Becker: So off the job, full time student, trying to figure out what Jordan 2.0 is going to be.

Jordan Robison: Correct. Yeah. So I've had a couple different plans floated. Originally it was like nursing school with the thought of going flight medic. But ultimately, I think long term, what I'd like to do is PA. So I'm working on getting my bachelor's degree in the medical field. Right now, I'm leaning towards the bachelor's degree in respiratory therapy. And then PA. School is definitely the route I see myself going as a physician's assistant, PA.

So I have to get my bachelor's degree and I'm going to do that in respiratory therapy, just so I get that good medical background, get good at innovations, art lines, things like that. And then I want to go to be a physician's assistant. Two years of school, but pretty intensive. School. But it's something that I can see myself doing, not getting bored with, and a lot of satisfaction helping people in a different way.

Jon Becker: Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting because you're really young and it's kind of, you know, it's Jordan 2.0 at a very young age, but from where I sit, I think that you've given us enough.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. And that was the hardest thing. Like, really, that was super, super difficult to deal with, is I am young and I'm hungry. And I loved the dynamic parts of being a cop. Like, I loved the foot pursuits, the vehicle pursuits, getting the gangsters, getting the guns, the SWAT callouts, the barricades, the warrants, the range. Like, that was probably some of the most fun I've ever had in my life.

And so it really took me stepping back and stepping away to plan for that long term future. It's like, yes, this is fun now while I'm 32 years old. But you got metal on your leg. You got metal in both your arms and your stomach. You got a scar, like a twelve inch scar in your stomach. Where are you going to be in ten years? How's your back going to be in ten years? What is your plan? Like, are you just going to do this till your body falls apart?

So I really had to kind of humble myself and say, hey, you are not going to feel be this young forever. Where do you see yourself in the future? And I wanted a career that I can literally do for the next 30 years without continuing to make that daily sacrifice that cops make on their body. Cause I don't know too many cops after the age of 50 who can stand up straight without their lower back hurting.

Jon Becker: Oh, yeah. I'm 55, and all of my friends that were my contemporaries when I started my business, I don't know anybody that doesn't have at least one knee replacement. They've all had Achilles tendon surgery. They've all had meniscus surgery.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. The toll it takes is just potent.

Jon Becker: Yeah, it's ridiculous. I mean, I am the healthy one now, which is kind of terrifying. When I look at my friends and thought, oh, man, that guy's in such good shape. He's like 75% bionic now, though. So let's. Let's go back. Like, we covered last week's episode. We went through, you know, the event and kind of the. The medical response and kind of lessons learned.

But I think what people want to understand and what I would love to share with our audience is what Jordan went through. Right? Like, what was, you know, the shooting happens. You get to the hospital. Let's just kind of walk through the timeline.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. So, I get to the hospital. I'm awake the whole time. I mean, obviously, Spencer talked about it. That's a good thing that I'm awake the whole time. It sucked when you're going through it. Cause I can feel every second of it. But I'm awake the whole time. They finally, I think I went to surgery. It was either hour and a half, 2 hours after I got to the hospital, which is another good sign, you know, not getting rushed straight off.

But I remember going up to the or, and the anesthesiologist tells me, hey, you're going to sleep. And I look at him right in the eyes, and I say, thank God. Straight in the eyes, like, I'm. Like, I'd like to take a nap, please. Yeah, exactly.

Jon Becker: I'm willing to miss this part.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. So I wake up from the first surgery. From what I was told, it's about a ten hour surgery. So I wake up from that. Feels the best way I could describe coming out of it is just like, you feel like you're waking up out of, like, a crazy ice bath. Like, I felt like I was defrosting, you know, and you're jolted right back in your body. My leg feels worse than it ever did. Arms. I can feel every second of it in my stomach. The pain kind of doubled in my stomach.

But I wake, you know, I wake up in my hospital bed. Some family comes to see me, see my mom, see my girl, tell them, hey, I'm doing all right. Like, stop freaking out. I'm fine. They walk out of the room. I'm like, I'm freaking out. This hurts. No, but…

Jon Becker: On brave face, they walk out, goes back to.

Jordan Robison: Exactly.

Jon Becker: Yeah.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. So talk to them. Everything's good. The nice thing was the department had a officer sit with me the whole time. You know, obviously, it was a gang member who was involved in it. We don't know about family security reasons, so. But it was nice having somebody to talk to.

And then they started prepping me for my second surgery. So at that point, they had what's called a steinman pin in my left tib fib. So it's a metal pin that they drill through your shin, and they attach weights to that pin to the edge of your bed to pull traction on your femur. So that was not.

Jon Becker: That sounds like a barrel.

Jordan Robison: No, it was. It was not pleasant. So that's how I woke up from the first surgery with my Steinman pin in, which was great. And then, what they did in the first surgery. Sorry, I'm kind of rambling. What they did in the first surgery was they repaired my stomach because that was the emergent part.

Jon Becker: Yeah. Let's walk real quick. Let's go back through injury. So left and right a*** bones are broken.

Jordan Robison: Yep. Femur shatter.

Jon Becker: Shattered. Left femur round through the stomach, like, traverses the stomach.

Jordan Robison: Yep. Part of the. I think it's the descending colon and the small intestine get caught as the.

Jon Becker: Round goes through and then around, through and through in the shoulder.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, that one didn't need any medical intervention. They just patched it.

Jon Becker: And then a graze wound on the ribs.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, graze wound on the ribs.

Jon Becker: And two in the plate.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, two to the plate curve.

Jon Becker: Okay, so. Okay, so you were saying start with the stomach.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. So first surgery was the stomach repair, and then they placed the Steinman pin. And then they told me once I woke up from that, because my arms and legs still broken, that I'm obviously going to need a second surgery to repair my limbs. But the ors are full and obviously they have a couple safe for, like, emergent situations. And I was stable.

So I think I waited like, two days in the hospital and the pain was there, obviously, but they had me so high on stuff that I was managing it pretty well. And then I go to my second surgery and I wake up and just. It felt like the pain had just turned up on a scale that I just hadn't felt before, especially in the legend.

Once they put the rod in. Once they put plates in my right arm, my left arm. Waking up from that second surgery, I think it was. The first surgery is on Wednesday. Second surgery was on Friday. Waking up for that second surgery, it was rough that night after. It was a rough night, but.

Jon Becker: So the first surgery is basically the abdominal repair.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: Second surgery is all the orthopedics.

Jordan Robison: Yep. All the orthopedic repairs, which are plates.

Jon Becker: In left and right arms. And then pin in the leg.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. A rod that runs from my left knee up into my left hip.

Jon Becker: Oh, so like, I was a stiver rod, I think.

Jordan Robison: I'm not sure the name of it.

Jon Becker: Yeah. But basically it's in the middle of the femur to rebuild the femur.

Jordan Robison: Correct.

Jon Becker: And then. And then a pin down in the shin, which was removed.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. So that was removed. So I wake up from my second surgery, there's no longer weights pulling on my leg, which I thought would be nice, but, um. You still feel the leg break. But, um. Yeah, I don't know. You just deal with it. The hospital, that was it. It sucks, too. And especially with stomach surgeries. If anybody's had a stomach surgery, you know, you have to have what's called a ng tube, nasal nasogastrianol tube to Provide suction because they can't risk you vomiting. You vomit, you're gonna tear all your stitches open.

So I have this tube that's running through my nose, down my throat, into my stomach, and can't drink and you can't eat the whole time. So the whole time I'm in the hospital, I can't have any water, and I can't eat anything while I'm dealing with this.

Sounds crazy, but looking back, that was definitely, like, one of the harder things to deal with, especially once you think I was there for like, five, six days, and the tube didn't get taken out till day five. And so that sucked. I remember. I think we're five days on from surgery now that they finally took the tube out. They said, all right, your stomach sealing, take the tube out. And they give me an orange jello. And I remember that was the first thing I had eaten. And I was so, like, the flavor from a hospital orange jello. You would not believe how much flavor that jello had.

Jon Becker: Like, I've done six day fasts in the past.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, I'm sure you would.

Jon Becker: It is amazing on that 6th day, like, you eat.

Jordan Robison: It's like the explosion of flavor from just the most basic thing. It just blew my mind. And. I don't know, I still remember that jello.

Jon Becker: Fascinating! So up until now, I imagine in that five or six days, you're kind of rising and falling emotionally. What were the low points for you?

Jordan Robison: So it was probably the first night after my second surgery, I was really high because I was on all kinds of pain meds. When you come off of prolonged anesthesia, like I was on, you hallucinate. So I'm hallucinating. I'm in just a ton of pain, you know, because that's how it is whenever you wake up from something like that. And then, what had happened was I was an EMT before I was a cop. So I'm blessed with just. Just enough medical knowledge to know when something's wrong, but not enough to know that it's not that serious.

Jon Becker: Got it.

Jordan Robison: So, that night, I start noticing that there's fresh blood coming into my ng tube. And to me, I know that means there's an upper gi bleed that's. That's happening. So that's what I knew from my EMC knowledge. What I didn't know from, you know, lack of further knowledge is probably just an ulcer. So at the time, I'm like, my stomach ripped open. I'm dying. This isn't good. You know? Like, I had convinced myself that I was gonna die in the hospital bed, and that's what freaked me out more than anything. Like, if I died out there in the field, like, who cares? You know?

And I know that sounds callous, but that's a quick, easy death. I did not want to die in a hospital bed laying there helpless. Like, that was one of my biggest fears at the time, was just dying like that. And so when you're hallucinating and you're super high, you're not really rational. I convinced myself that I was dying, and eventually, it took a text from one of the doctors who's on the team. Doc Ebee sent a text to, I think it was my mom who's with me at the time. Like, tell Jordan to calm down. Like, it's probably an ulcer. He's fine. Like, and the message he said was, remember, two steps forward, one step back.

And that kind of stuck with me throughout the process of this healing process is, you are going to take steps forward, but there are going to be setbacks, and so you have to manage that. Take your setback, take your medicine, and then just take two more steps forward tomorrow. So got through that night, eventually fell asleep, and got through it. But that was definitely the low point.

Jon Becker: Was that the only time that you thought you were gonna die?

Jordan Robison: That night, I thought I was gonna die. And then the initial shooting when I went down, obviously, you're trying to self assess, and I knew it was bad. I knew it was hit a lot, and I hadn't lost consciousness yet, but there was definitely the thought there of just, hey, like, this could turn. You might not make it so. But other than that, those two moments, I knew I was going to pull through.

Jon Becker: Yeah. It's interesting because, you know, one of the things that we've talked about offline and talked about with Spencer is that the. The physical condition that you were in going into this is probably a large part of the reason you're still alive.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, that's what all the surgeons said. They said it definitely helps. During the initial surgery, the orthopedic surgeon kind of cursed me a little bit because she was like, yeah, it's good for your recovery. She's like, it's very difficult to get through all that muscle to put your place on the rod. But she was like, I mean, that's my problem, not your problem. Like, you did the right thing.

So she kind of joked with me a little bit. She was like, yeah, it was kind of hard to get through all that muscle to place, place a rod. But that really, really took its toll. Being in good shape took its toll during the physical therapy process. That was huge, absolutely huge.

Jon Becker: See, I don't think, you know, it's, it's, I think lessons learned, right? Always the goal of the podcast is lessons learned.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: And I think that one of the lessons learned here is the fact that you were in the physical condition that you were not only means you survived better, but it means you recover better?

Jordan Robison: Correct. Yeah. No, especially when you have good workout habits established so that PT lifestyle. A lot of people dread physical therapy. Getting up out of bed, you know, you're sore, you're tired. But to me, that was already part of what I was doing, daily, daily conditioning. So I mentally just treated it like, hey, I'm gonna go work out.

Instead of thinking of like, oh man, I gotta go do physical therapy of like, no, I'm gonna go work out. And that's how I convinced myself to go and give 100 miles an hour every time I went to a physical therapy session to the point to where they're like, you, you need to calm down.

And I was like, no, you need to turn it up. Like, you need to crank it up little. Cause this is easy. So that, that mentality of just pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing, really, I feel like helped me get back on my feet as quickly as I did.

Jon Becker: What, when did you know you were going to be okay? When was the first time that you're like, I think I'm going to be okay?

Jordan Robison: From the initial shooting or?

Jon Becker: Yeah. from the hospital, like, where was that point that you were like, I, I think I'm gonna be alright?

Jordan Robison: Sounds weird, but once my back actually hit the hospital bed and I felt like once, once they got to the hospital, they pulled me out of the car, they moved me off the gurney, and they put me on that soft hospital bed. That's when I was like, all right, I'm still here, I'm still talking. Yeah, this s*** hurts, but I think I'm gonna be okay.

And at that point, luckily I had reached that conclusion because shortly after that my parents walked in too. Then my fiance walked in, and I spoke to them, and I was able to be as calm as I could and just tell them, like, hey, I'm okay. I'm gonna be fine. Relax. We're good. My mom's a mess. Fiance is a mess. My dad looks right at me. I look at him, I was like, dad, I'm okay. And he was like, yeah, you know, if you're still talking, you're gonna be fine. I was like, yeah, no, I'm good.

Jon Becker: So it's interesting. Cause our mutual friend Ed Henchy, you know, who we both adore. When I interviewed Eddie, one of the things he said is that mindset. Yeah, mindset really matters to both survival and recovery. And every time we've talked about this, that's what I see, is that your mindset was in the right place kind of all the time. I mean, certainly, you know, it's a roller coaster, but you were committed to surviving and thriving again from the get.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, like you said, it's a roller coaster. You just. You have to remember to ride those waves. And it is that little mantra that doc eb gave me of just two steps forward, one step back. And when you take a step back, you cannot let it, like, defeat you. You can't let it destroy your spirit. You just have to know, like, hey, today your leg hurts. Yeah, that's gonna happen.

All right, let's work on your arms. Hey, let's work on some core. Let's do something else while that lake heals, and then you can go back to it. But I think where a lot of guys run into trouble is this, hey, I'm not who I used to be. It's like, well, no, you're not going to be who you used to be. Like, you never be who you used to be, but you can be someone just as good. You can. And it might be in different ways.

Jon Becker: Yeah.

Jordan Robison: But you just have to have that mindset going forward of just a hundred. A hundred miles an hour in your pt, 100 miles an hour in your recovery, or 100%. I don't want to say 100 miles an hour either way, 100%. That's what you have to give.

Jon Becker: So, okay, so five days, second surgery, that's done. They've turned you into a bionic man and put all kinds of ballistic parts into you. What's the next significant milestone?

Jordan Robison: So, to get out of the hospital, I had to start being able to pee on my own again. Which sounds weird, but teaching your body how to pee on its own is a pain. It sucks because when you can't, they have to do what's called a straight catheter, where they go in and take the pee out, otherwise your bladder is gonna burst.

Jon Becker: That sounds like a barrel of laughs.

Jordan Robison: No, it sucks. It really, really sucks. But your body responds quicker than you think. So once you could pee on your own, then they were able to get me out of the hospital, and I got transferred to their live in rehab facility. And I was there for, I think, like, seven or eight days, where every single day, three times a day, I was doing physical therapy with the goal of, you know, going home.

So they teach you how to get up, get out of your wheelchair, get into bed, get up three steps, because I had three steps to my house. So we worked on steps. We worked on, you know, going to the bathroom, all these livable things, as well as just strength conditioning. Working on my right side. Cause that was the good leg. Working on how to manipulate that to, you know, protect my femur. It was good because you work out every day, multiple times a day. So being there was really good for my mind.

Jon Becker: So then after that eight days, we get the great video snippet, my personal favorite video snippet of Jordan walking out of the hospital.

Jordan Robison: I was adamant about that. I was absolutely adamant, because, you know, they're like, all right, here's your wheelchair. We're, you know, we'll wheel you out. And I looked at my mom was like, get my walker. I'm nothing. I want everybody to know that I'm okay. I don't want people to see me because it was bad. Like, everybody knew it was bad. You heard about it. It was bad.

So if I could mitigate people's fears a little bit, not just to be selfless, if it helps people, like, calm down a little bit, not blow me up every day, that's a plus. So, no, I was adamant. I walked out of there on my modified walker. Cause I couldn't put weight on my forearms, but I.

Jon Becker: Cause both your arms were broken.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. Cause both my arms.

Jon Becker: Yeah. Let's just keep perspective here. Yeah. Your modified walker implies that, like, you know, both your arms are broken.

Jordan Robison: I could put the tension on my elbows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And push with my good leg, keeping my broken leg off the ground.

Jon Becker: You'd lean on the parts of the arms that weren't broken and walk out on the one leg that wasn't broken.

Jordan Robison: I was sore when I went home. I'll say that it was worth it.

Jon Becker: I mean, I can honestly say, like, watching the video, that was the first real indication that we got. And watching the video, there was something different about you walking out as opposed to going out in a wheelchair. You're like, he's going to be okay.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. And that's really the message I wanted to convey of just like, hey, I'm going to be fine. I walked in my walker and I did, like, the lap and said hi to everybody there and spoke to as many people as I could, and then eventually looked at my dad, gave him the whole, like, hey, I'm done.

Jon Becker: We're done, buddy.

Jordan Robison: Leg hurts. Need to go sit down. And then got my truck and got out of there, which was nice. So that was definitely a high that day.

Jon Becker: So what's it like when you get home?

Jordan Robison: So it's different for everybody. I know a lot of people experience, like, a great sense of relief. Like, hey, I'm finally home. I'm finally out of it. And for me, I couldn't tell you why I felt this way, but I. I was hit with one of the real, real low points. Like, just this wave of depression that I had not felt yet.

When I got out of the hospital and finally made it home, and I've talked about it and I think I understand why now, but at the time, it was, like, shocking. I didn't expect to feel this way, but just a wave of depression hit me like I never felt before.

So I guess the mindset behind it was when I was at the live in rehab facility, I had a tight schedule. I would wake up every day. I would PT four times a day. You know, I had occupational therapy. Lunch was at a certain time, everything was on a strict schedule with the goal of going home. So your day is filled. Your day is productive. Your day is moving towards a concrete goal.

Jon Becker: Near term.

Jordan Robison: A near term concrete goal. And then when I got home, it was just this, well, now what?

Jon Becker: What's my good luck with the rest of your life?

Jordan Robison: Exactly. Like, my stomach's still open. I still have staples in my stomach that have not healed. Like, I still. That requires wound care every day. My legs still broken, my arms are still broken. Like, I have wounds that need, like, tending. My fiance had to help me with that and, like, actually clean my wounds every day.

So that was a big question that hit me of just like, well, now what? Now what's your goal? Like, what's your concrete goal? Because there is none. It was, take as much time as you need. Come, like, we'll be here. And it was that's not a concrete goal.

Jon Becker: That is amorphous and nebulous and kind of, you know, it's reachable.

Jordan Robison: It's limbo.

Jon Becker: Yeah.

Jordan Robison: That's the best way to describe it. It's. It's literally just limbo. And that was really, really hard to deal with. So what helped that for anybody who gets in that spot, was coming up with a schedule. I made a daily schedule of, hey, I have physical therapy Monday, Wednesday, Friday. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I take my little walker and I go for a walk around my neighborhood. I remember one of my neighbors saw me and started yelling at me. She's like, Jordan, you are a mile away from your house. Like, what are you doing? And I was like, I can't be home anymore. I don't know what to tell you.

Jon Becker: Like an Alzheimer's patient, we just found Jordan a mile from home. You guys come pick him up.

Jordan Robison: I know she – I thought she was just going to take my walker so I couldn't go anywhere.

Jon Becker: But again, that's mindset, right? That's a mindset of, like, I'm going to go do something hard.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. And so that's what all the physical therapists noticed when I actually started going to physical therapy was just like, all right, we're going to start coming up with some new exercises for this guy, because I would just show up and be like, hey, yeah, I appreciate it. I want to start doing this. Like, hey, that was great. That wasn't hard enough. Or, hey, you know, I can feel pain here. Let's modify it this way.

And so, I don't know. We started to develop a really close relationship to where I would go to physical therapy, and I would be drenched from sweat, head to toe, and walk out of there, like. And that sense of accomplishments, really important, especially when you feel like you're in a limbo.

Jon Becker: I think also, like, you are an active participant in your own recovery.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, 100%. You get into it, what you put out of it. And I think one of my friends the other day, I met up with him. He had broke his leg recently, and he asked me, he was like, hey, any advice? And I was like, the best advice I can give you is when you go to physical therapy, go a hundred miles an hour and give 110%. It's like….

Jon Becker: Make it hurt.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, yeah. Go give 100% when you go to physical therapy. I saw him recently, and he told me, he was like, bro, that was the best advice you ever gave me. He was like, my leg feels way better than it did. And I'm like, I didn't do anything. You did it. Yeah.

Jon Becker: But I think a lot of it, and this is part of the reason that I wanted to talk to you. I think a lot of it is somebody who's talked to a lot of guys that have survived shootings, not knowing what to do, not knowing where you're going. I know that you and I have had conversations with some of the other Safariland survivors.

Jordan Robison: Oh, yeah.

Jon Becker: It's having a roadmap. Even if your road's going to be slightly different, having some sense of where you're going kind of adds purpose to that. And it makes it feel like I'm not crazy.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, yeah. It just gets you out of that. That kind of funk of just like, well, like, I don't have a direction, so maybe I'll try this. It's like, no. Form a concrete plan and go attack that plan. That's the best thing you can do. Um, and I noticed a lot of the guys, the safari land survivors I talked to, once they get over, you know, some of the mental issues that they go through that I went through, that every survivor or something like this goes through, and they get back to work, I see an improvement as, as long as, you know, some of those issues are dealt with. You see that improvement when somebody has a set plan in front of them.

Jon Becker: So what's the next major physical milestone?

Jordan Robison: So it was to graduate from the walker. So I went back to the doctor and they said, hey, congratulations. Your arms are healed. You can now use a traditional walker. I was like, give me a cane. I was like, I want to use a cane. I don't use a walker. Like, I'm sick of this walker. It was funny, too, because I had, like, this old man walker, and I had, like, you know, like, gunfighter stickers on it. Like six, six hour stickers on it. Got an AARDVARK sticker on that. Like, all kinds of, like, you just.

Jon Becker: See you rolling into PT with, you know, glock and sig stickers.

Jordan Robison: Like, walkers all decked out.

Jon Becker: But I finally got 50 years younger than the guy next to you.

Jordan Robison: Got rid of that, started walking on the walker. Obviously no high impact, but they're like, you can start putting weight on that left leg now. So that became a real focus in the physical therapy, was just trying to get that left leg strong again, which takes effort. You don't realize how much muscle mass you lose in that leg, in a leg. When you go through something like that.

Jon Becker: And I've seen the x-rays of your leg, and it especially initially, didn't really look like a leg anymore.

Jordan Robison: Even healed. Now, my orthopedic surgeon who fixed it says bone heeled. It looks like a modern art sculpture down there.

Jon Becker: Yeah. It's a little abstract.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. Just a little. Little artsy.

Jon Becker: It's unique, though. It's a one of a kind.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, all right, whatever. I just want to be able to tie my shoes, and then turns out the way the bone heeled, she's like, yeah, buy some slip on. Buy slip on. So today, I had my fiance tie my shoes. But the next big one, obviously, was getting rid of the cane and being able to walk on my own. And that got better, obviously, because, you know, same thing. Just push it too far.

Jon Becker: Yeah, well, I mean, now, like, honestly, like, if I didn't know that you had injuries, you can't tell. Yeah, like, obviously there's. There's scars.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: But just, like, if you just met, you can't tell that, like, you have no clue what happened.

Jordan Robison: It is funny. I was at school the other day, and obviously none of my classmates know. I don't. It's not something I go broadcast, but one of the guys who sits next to me, who I get along with really well, looked at my arm and sees, like, the pretty distinct, like, bullet hole in the scar. And he was like, bro, what is that?

Jon Becker: That's nothing. Let me show you the other.

Jordan Robison: I was like, oh, that one. Don't worry about that little guy. But, yeah, it's – And he said the same thing. He's like, because I told him I had no problem talking about it. And he was like, that's. He's like, I never would have known. And I was like, well, good. Like that was the goal.

Obviously. I chose to medically retire just like we talked about with the longevity and going forward, but my goal was like, I don't want to be the guy who limps around every day because, you know, he didn't take physical therapy serious. Like, I still want to be able to work out because people asked me before, what's your hobby? One of my hobbies was going to the gym, working out.

Jon Becker: That's showed.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. I enjoyed something I enjoy now. So that was huge for me to continue that.

Jon Becker: Yeah, I think that if you. If you didn't know, you know, what's happened since the shooting and just picked up Jordan before and Jordan after, emotionally, there's probably a lot of difference. Physically, there's some marks, but I don't know that you would necessarily be able to go, oh, you know, he's like a different guy.

Jordan Robison: Well, I got a few more cheeseburgers on me now. A little bit there. I'm losing.

Jon Becker: Which is totally okay. I think you're. I think at this point, you were entitled to at least a couple of extra cheeseburgers and five pounds of extra blood. I think it's full pass on that one. So talk to me. Let's. Like, that's the physical side of it.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: Talk to me about the emotional side of it. Like you talked about it was dark when you first got home.

Jordan Robison: Sure.

Jon Becker: And then. What does that roller coaster look like from there?

Jordan Robison: So, you know, I already spoke about, you know, that dark place, and then getting that schedule helped. Well, I truly thought that I was okay, like, especially when I was busy and I was going through all this physical therapy, and I was happy, you know, I was tired, and I was working out, and all the guys were talking to me. I was talking to guys on the team. I thought I was okay. Like, I thought, yeah, this is sad.

There were days where, you know, I'd wake up and I'd, you know, you feel that grief and, you know, you cry and things like that, and I get over it, and I'd be fine. Like. And I was like, no, I'm handling this really well. I'm doing. I'm doing good.

Fast forward. I think it's like five and a half months. I go back light duty, and I'm working in personnel and training. I have a conversation with one of the guys on the team, and he shares a detail with me about the shooting that I didn't remember until he said it. And what the detail was. I remember we were talking, and I was like, yeah. When I was down, I was just trying to call out where I was hit, you know, like, you know, it sounded like a badass in my head.

Jon Becker: Yeah.

Jordan Robison: Left arm, right arm. He's like, no. I was like, what do you mean, no? He's like, no, you just said Mike. I was like, like, Mike. He's like, yeah. You just said Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. And I remember it like. Like this. Like a cheesy TV, like. Like a cheesy movie. This flashback flooded into my brain where, when I was down, the guy at my head, his name's Mike Yin.

Mike was at my head, and he was the one who was talking to me, because that's one thing we always assign to. You know, if you're not actively doing medical aid. You're talking to the person keeping them there. And that's what Mike was doing. Mike was talking to me, like, hey, we're all here. You're good. You're good. And I just. I remember looking at Mike, and all I could say was just like, Mike. Like, Mike, Mike, Mike.

Well, I didn't know. I didn't remember that until he said it. And I can't even describe the emotions that hit me while I'm at work. Light duty. So we've somehow. We're at lunch when we're talking about this. Somehow I'm able to keep it together. I go sit at my desk, and my buddy sits next to me at his desk. Our desk are, like, right next to each other, and I'm, like, staring at a blank computer screen. There's nothing on it.

Like, I'm not doing anything. I'm literally sitting at my desk, staring at a blank computer screen. Just completely. Almost like, shell shock. Like, just completely overwhelmed. And my buddy sits next to me. He was actually a vet, served a couple tours in Iraq. He recognized immediately that something was wrong. He's like, hey, dude, like, why don't you go home? And I was like, all right. He's like, I'll talk to lieutenant. I'll talk to everybody. He's like, don't say bye to anybody. Just grab your stuff, go home. Call me if you need me. I was like, cool, you know, and good on him for being heads up. Yeah, like, it was really heads up.

So I go start driving home, and my heart rate is through the roof. I'm sweating, like, truly, like, diaphoretic. I'm completely sweat through my shirt, sobbing uncontrollably, and my breathing accelerates to the points where I can't even drive. I literally have to pull over halfway home because I can't drive. My hands won't stop shaking.

So I sit in my car on the side of the road in the ghetto of San Bernardino. Because I was taking the streets home, I didn't trust myself to drive the freeway. Just sitting on the side of the road for about 30 minutes before that, what we would describe as a panic attack subsided, and I was actually able to start my car and drive home. And that's when I went back to work and said, like, I need to talk to somebody. I'm not okay. Like, I can't do this.

Jon Becker: Like, yeah.

Jordan Robison: Because that was the first time where that actual physical side of PTSD hit me. And this is months later. At this point, I was like, no, I'm I think I'm fine. Yeah, I think I'm past this.

Jon Becker: Yeah, I totally weathered this thing. It's no big deal.

Jordan Robison: Exactly. Yeah. And so once that hit me, talked to a therapist or they put me in touch with the counselor, told the counselor what happened, and she was like, I'm putting you off work. I was like, well, I wasn't gonna go back anyway, so I'm glad. At least I'll get paid. I'm glad I wasn't gonna go. And so I started working with her, and I think I worked with her for about, I think it was four months that I saw her. And we started doing this therapy called EMDR. So rapid. Sorry. Eye movement desensitization. Desensitization. I forgot what the r stands for. Something like that is.

So essentially it's you need to take that short term memory that's causing your brain to think you're in a fight or flight situation and activating your sympathetic nervous system. You need to take that short term memory and get your brain to process it and put it into long term memory. She was like, that's what's happening. It's like the emotional side is the emotional side. You're going to grieve. You're going to be angry. You're going to go through all that.

She's like, that's just going to happen. But the physical side, the panic attack, the accelerated heart rate, the sweatiness, because this had happened a couple times after that, that trigger, she's like, that's something we can help with. You don't have to live like that. So we started this process, and it was a long process and it wasn't easy, but I'm trying to transfer that memory in the long term.

Jon Becker: I've heard it described by other shooting survivors and doctors that I've talked to is the best application I heard was if it fired together, it's wired together.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: And that you have to unwire the physiological response from the emotional. Like you said, you know, the fear, the trauma, the sadness, all of that is an emotion.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: And you can process the emotion, but it's the physical aspect of it. It's the high heart rate and literally your body going back into fight or flight uncontrollably. Right? Because there is no direct threat right now.

Jordan Robison: Straight adrenaline.

Jon Becker: No way to solve it.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, straight adrenaline dump.

Jon Becker: How so? You worked with her for about four months. When does that portion of this thing not necessarily go away, but become manageable and kind of tempered?

Jordan Robison: I'd probably say, I think towards the end of that time, the severe panic attacks subsided for me. And I know it's different for everybody. But, like, the adrenaline dumps randomly got smaller and smaller till eventually they kind of stopped for me on the emotional side to where I felt, like, emotionally, I could talk about it.

I could watch the video. I could, you know, share this experience without getting too emotional. Probably took me. It still comes back every once in a while, but I'd say probably over the year mark, like, maybe year two, three months, something like that.

Jon Becker: Yeah. Well, and what. What now still triggers that for you? Like, is there anything direct where you're like, oh, I need to avoid, you know, I need to watch. What? Avoid watching Rambo or, you know, I can't watch cats on TV or, you know.

Jordan Robison: Well, it's, I think we talked about it, obviously, before this. If I'm watching body worn camera video from somebody else's incident, I can watch that just fine. Even if they're taking contact, even if they're taking fire, it's the officer down where I can hear the officers screaming, where I could hear or see the blood, things like that. I can still watch it. Like, you know, if I had to get through it, I could do it and I'd be fine. But it's. Do I avoid it? Yeah. Like, personally, I don't want to see it because I'm like, I've been there. It sucks.

Jon Becker: I mean, you know, you and I watched the video of you together, and. And, I mean, I. My heart rate was elevated. Like, it's. It's. It's certainly traumatic, and. But it's. It's a testament to your willingness to go to therapy, your willingness to engage. You know, it's so easy as, as a type males to think, I'm good.

Jordan Robison: Yeah, I'm good.

Jon Becker: I can deal with this. And, you know, it's. It's at hinch again, and I have had this conversation, like, you know, you didn't hesitate to get your leg fixed when it got shot.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: Right. Your arms broke, and you're getting that traded. But we're very inclined to just go, oh, no, no, my brain. There's nothing wrong with my brain. Yeah, no, your brain had the same experience that the rest of your body did

Jordan Robison: It's the same thing. Like, my leg was broken or my leg was not broken until it was broken. You know what I mean? Like, like, when that happens, like, your mind needs to be fixed. So for me, I was fine up until, boom. Like, I was hit with it hard. And I know it's different for everybody. Some people can be progressive, especially, I know, a lot of guys, long years on the job, where they see horrendous things PTSD can be. Can grow and shape over time. But this, for me, was one major incident that was causing a, like, a visceral reaction that I needed to go deal with. Yeah.

Jon Becker: So we've, you know, subsequent to your shooting, you've had conversations with guys who have recently been in shootings.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: And, you know, one of the things that I, as your friend, am most proud of is the fact that you were willing to go and engage that and pass on, you know, kind of what was shared with you by other people. What would your counsel be to somebody who has just had an event like this?

Jordan Robison: Well, there's two portions of it, obviously, as we talked about, for the physical stuff, the simple advice, just 100% in all your. Everything you can do to try and recover physically, go 100%, even if it. All you can do is move your hand in the hospital. Well, then move your hand, flex your hand, do whatever you can.

So that's the physical side. For the mental side, you can't do it on your own, no matter how much you want to. You cannot fix what. What is going on in your brain on your own. Now, whether that means you talk to a therapist or you talk to somebody who's been through it before, I recommend a trained professional personally.

When you talk to that trained professional, you need to have a connection with them. Like, if you talk to somebody and you're like, wow, this guy's kind of a p****, you're not gonna. You're not gonna heal from that guy. Go to somebody else. Like, don't. Don't sit there and try and deal with somebody you don't like with your therapist. You need to be able to trust them. You need to have a connection with them, because that – They say 50% effectiveness is determined by your relationship with your therapist.

So you're talking. A huge amount of healing or lack of can be done by your relationship with your therapist. So that's huge. And then there's a community out there of people who've been through bullshit like this who are here to help, you know, I've done. I'm going to keep doing my part to reach out to guys who are going through this just to be there, you know? And it's just crazy, too, when you talk to these guys, how much you have in common. Like, every shooting is different, every set of physical problems different, every set of mental problems is different.

But there's just so many things that, you know, we all have in common that, like, do you go through this? He's like, yeah, man, I really want to. One of the big things was sleep. I didn't sleep for s*** for probably the first year. Didn't sleep like I could not fall asleep to save my life.

Once I was asleep, which probably happened like once every two, three days. I sleep for like 12 hours because my body was exhausted. But falling asleep was brutal. And I know I've talked to other guys who really struggle with sleep because they either dream or, you know, they wake up every hour. But sleep is a common thing. And that got better for me one when time had passed and I got therapy.

Jon Becker: So what about for people who, you know, like, when this whole thing happens, obviously everybody around you has a reaction to this.

Jordan Robison: Yeah.

Jon Becker: Right? And some of those reactions are positive and some are not. What would you counsel people who are close to somebody who has been through this?

Jordan Robison: Yeah, that's a really good question. I would just say that you should probably look at your own mental health as well because you, especially the guys who put tourniquets on me, like, they. They went through something traumatic. They saw one of their buddies essentially get butchered and they had to try and fix it. Didn't know if he was going to live or die. They all had to go do interviews with blood, my blood all over their hands, their uniforms.

I mean, Spencer talked about it super close with his family. He has to go home, face his family, who's all like, house Jordan. House Jordan. He doesn't know, you know, you are going to have your own trauma. When, especially for the guys who were there who don't go through the actual, who don't actually get shot, you have trauma that you have to deal with.

My advice is don't try and get your therapy session or lump yourself into that same category. And this isn't to disparage anybody, but there I – What I notice, and this happened with multiple people, is a lot of guys who were going through some mental trauma of their own would come to me and try and find some absolution in it and try and be like, we went through something crazy. And I'm like, yes, we did. But like, we went through two different things, you know?

Jon Becker: Yeah.

Jordan Robison: Like, and I'll be honest, probably emotionally, I didn't have to go back to the department. I didn't have to deal with that. Like my, I don't know what you went through, man. And I'm sure that sucked going back to work after seeing that, seeing one of your buddies go down, I couldn't even. I can't contemplate what that's like, and that's. You need to find somebody who's been through that. But at the same time, too, it's like, I can't be your therapist because I'm going through something as well.

Jon Becker: Yeah. Don't try to relive the event.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. Not. Not right other. Not right away in it. It's all coming from a good place. I get that because they need to go through it. But my advice is, go talk to your therapist. Go get a therapist. Go talk to them. Go talk to each other. Go talk to – And when I'm in a good place, like I am now, I'll talk to you about it all day long. I could care less. We talked to, I don't even know how many hours I've talked to all my brothers on the team about this for.

But when that person who's physically healing and emotionally healing, you got. You gotta let them heal. Don't dump your. Your burden onto them as well.

Jon Becker: What did people do that was helpful?

Jordan Robison: I thought it was really helpful how people kind of coordinated behind, behind the scenes together. Like, I don't know how somebody coordinated with my parents. And, like, every day, somebody would drop off a meal. You know, every day somebody would say, here's dinner. Here's dinner. Here's dinner.

So my fiance didn't have to worry about anything. I didn't have to worry about anything. We didn't have to order food. Just constant stream of food. I think people got together, the poa fix, like, my fence, because one of my fence was falling, and it had been my plan to fix it. Obviously, I got hurt, so I couldn't do it. And they just came out of nowhere, fixed my fence.

So just little things that the community got together and did for me really meant a lot. Like, to this day, it really meant a lot. One of the things that I wasn't there for, but I also, like, really found inspirational, too, is the whole SWAT team got together with each other to deal with what they were dealing with for, I think, like, a week, two weeks after every day, they would just go meet up and talk to each other.

And knowing that my guys were taking care of themselves, especially after the initial shooting, kind of gave me some peace. Knowing that guys were reaching out and taking care of my fiance kind of gave me peace. That way I could focus on me, because instead of having to worry about my fiance or just, like, you know, is she being taken care of? Everybody is hitting me up like, she's good. We've got her. Whatever she needs, she gets. Don't even stress about that. So taking those little burdens off the person who's healing really meant a lot.

Jon Becker: Because it creates space for you to go heal.

Jordan Robison: Exactly. Just. It literally just lets you focus on yourself.

Jon Becker: If you were to go back prior to this incident with Jordan 1.0, nowhere near the man Jordan 2.0 is, but Jordan 1.0, what would you tell you that you think would help you get through this? Other than what we've already talked about, is there anything else that you'd be like, oh, man, I wish I had known.

Jordan Robison: Oh…. I don't know. Just really don't take your personal relationships, especially at home, with your parents, with your fiance, with your friends, with your family. Don't take it lightly. Like, take that serious, because you never know when that's going to end. And luckily, you know, I got to make amends and, you know, closer now with everybody, you know, but before, I was pretty distant with everybody. It's distant with my parents. I was distant with my fiance, distant with my family. It's just 100% focused on work.

So if I could go back in time and just say one thing, it's just like, hey, man, really don't take those relationships for granted. Like, really take that serious. But as far as prepping him for it, I don't think there's any prep for it. I think you just got to go through it. I would just show up physically strong and just work your a** off. I mean, obviously I would tactic because. Tactics, we got to sit down and discuss some tactics.

Jon Becker: Sure.

Jordan Robison: Hindsight being what it is, but…

Jon Becker: Hindsight is always 2020.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. Physically, I felt like I was prepared for it. Emotionally, it's a roller coaster, but I still feel like I got through it. Just the big thing I would say is your personal relationships, because that could have gone differently, and I would have ended being in a less than ideal place with all the people that I love and care about.

Jon Becker: So do you think that this has kind of re-perspectived life for you?

Jordan Robison: 100%. That's the biggest reason. Not the biggest reason, but it's definitely consideration for my medical retirement. Like me and my fiance. You know, we want to start a family. We, you know, I want to be there for my parents, X, Y, and Z, and there's more to life than going out and chasing murderers and gangsters. And it's fun, don't get me wrong. And it needs to be done and it's important.

But for me, with my hardware, everything that I went through had to sit down and make that, you know, personal decision to, to step back with long term goals in mind, long term life assessment in mind. Where do I want to be in 10, 20, 30, 40 years? So, yeah, no, definitely gave me perspective on everything.

Jon Becker: Jordan 2.0, a better man than Jordan 1.0 was.

Jordan Robison: I definitely feel like it matures you a lot again, even against your will. Like you, you grow up when you go through something like this.

Jon Becker: So, my brother, I appreciate you being here with me! This was fantastic! And hopefully everybody that heard the story will know that Jordan's okay.

Jordan Robison: Yeah. And just this stuff happens. Unfortunately, it happens. We're seeing it on like a weekly, even daily basis sometimes. So hopefully this podcast can get in the right hands and hit the right set of yours.

But, yeah, no, thanks for having me, brother!

Jon Becker: Thanks so much!