Description

On June 14, 2020, Butte County Sheriff’s SWAT team executed what seemed like a routine arrest warrant for an arson suspect on a remote mountain property. Using night vision for covert reconnaissance, the team discovered they had walked into an active attempted murder scene. The suspect was later identified as a serial killer responsible for three murders and two attempted murders.

Lieutenant Josh Brazzi, SWAT Commander, and Sergeant Angelo Tavelli, Team Leader, share the harrowing details of this operation that saved a life and took down a dangerous predator. This episode examines tactical decision-making in rapidly evolving scenarios and the challenges of operating in remote, mountainous terrain.

 

Episode Information

Episode Number: Season 07, Episode 03 (Episode 68)

Episode Title: Taking Down A Serial Killer

Guest(s): Josh Brazzi & Angelo Tavelli

Air Date: February 11, 2026

Episode Length: 1:22:48

 

Guest Information

Josh Brazzi

Angelo Tavelli

 

Topics Covered

[00:00:00] Introduction to Serial Killer Case

SWAT team tasked with capturing serial killer responsible for multiple murders.

[00:02:32] Guest Background and Credentials

Josh introduces his role supervising marijuana unit, aviation, and SWAT team.

[00:03:26] Butte County Geography Overview

Description of rural area with lakes, rivers, hunting, and farmland.

[00:06:55] Initial Investigation and Lead Development

How agency began investigating case and developed initial leads.

[00:08:43] Missing Person and Vehicle Discovery

Finding suspect’s car and realizing owner was missing person.

[00:11:11] Phone Ping Location Intelligence

Using phone pings to locate suspect on remote property.

[00:11:57] Remote Property Description

88-acre property with challenging terrain and access issues.

[00:15:08] Initial Tactical Planning

Team develops approach plan considering terrain and communication challenges.

[00:20:01] Insertion and Bear Encounter

Team encounters bear while approaching target location.

[00:34:04] Hearing Victim’s Screams

Team hears screaming sounds indicating possible victim in distress.

[00:43:06] First Visual Contact

Team spots suspect walking up road in darkness.

[00:46:23] Chase and Victim Rescue

Initial chase begins and injured victim is discovered.

[00:56:39] Final Apprehension

Team locates suspect with hatchet and takes him into custody.

[01:03:51] Trailer House of Horrors

Discovery of horrific conditions inside suspect’s trailer.

[01:10:49] Medical Support and Resources

Importance of dedicated ambulance and medical personnel for SWAT operations.

[01:16:08] Lessons Learned and Training

How case influenced future mission planning and team training protocols.

Description

Jon Becker sits down with author James Kerr to revisit his groundbreaking book Legacy and examine what has made the New Zealand All Blacks the most successful sports team in history.

Kerr breaks down the practical principles behind sustained excellence—humility, accountability, and culture as behavior—and translates them into actionable lessons for leadership and team performance in high-stakes tactical environments.

 

Episode Information

Episode Number: Season 07, Episode 02 (Episode 67)

Episode Title: Legacy Revisited

Guest(s): James Kerr

Air Date: January 28, 2026

Episode Length: 1:31:06

 

Guest Information

James Kerr

 

Topics Covered

[00:00:09] Introduction and Guest Background

Opening conversation with James Kerr about his work.

[00:03:36] All Blacks Case Study Introduction

Why the All Blacks became the focus of Kerr’s research.

[00:06:08] Humility as Performance Foundation

Humility as the antidote to ego and entitlement.

[00:08:31] Sweep the Sheds Ritual

The meaning behind the team’s post-game cleanup tradition.

[00:10:40] Culture as Behavior Definition

Defining culture through observable actions, not slogans.

[00:15:10] Leave Ego at the Door

Practicing deliberate humility at every level.

[00:17:03] Purpose and Meaning Connection

Aligning personal purpose to avoid wasted potential.

[00:34:50] No Dickheads Policy

Protecting elite culture by removing toxic behavior.

[00:53:15] Blue Head / Red Head Model

Managing emotional states to improve performance.

[01:11:02] Jersey Legacy Ritual

Connecting players to history, responsibility, and standards.

[01:28:56] Future Projects and Closing

Closing thoughts and discussion of upcoming work.

Description

In this episode of The Debrief, host Jon Becker sits down with LAPD SWAT’s Jonathan Pultz, a 27-year veteran and D-Platoon element leader, to examine one of law enforcement’s most critical missions: hostage rescue. With D-Platoon conducting 120-150 high-risk operations annually, Pultz brings unparalleled operational experience to discuss LAPD SWAT’s methodologies and approach to hostage situations.

Through detailed analysis of two recent operations, this conversation explores tactical decision-making, crisis negotiation integration, and the lessons learned from over five decades of SWAT operations. Essential listening for tactical operators seeking insights from one of the world’s premier law enforcement units.

 

Episode Information

Episode Number: Season 07, Episode 01 (Episode 64)

Episode Title: LAPD D-Platoon’s Approach to Hostage Rescue

Guest(s): Jon Pultz

Air Date: January 14, 2026

Episode Length: 1:51:35

 

Guest Information

Jon Pultz

 

Topics Covered

[00:00:00] Introduction and Guest Background

Jon Pultz introduces his 27-year LAPD career and tactical expertise.

[00:03:16] Hostage Rescue as Ultimate Challenge

Discussing hostage rescue as the Super Bowl of special operations.

[00:08:27] Identifying True Hostage Situations

Determining whether incidents are genuine hostage situations versus false alarms.

[00:13:06] Problem Containment and Shrinking Perimeter

Strategic approach to containing and reducing the scope of incidents.

[00:18:34] Post-Containment Operations and Medical Planning

Planning next steps after containment including medical team positioning.

[00:23:59] Baby Hostage Case Study

Real incident involving hostage situation with an infant victim.

[00:27:38] Command Structure and Decision Authority

How LAPD defines desired outcomes and authority distribution in operations.

[00:32:53] Providing Options to Incident Commanders

Tactical teams offering multiple solution approaches to commanding officers.

[00:42:14] Front-End Planning and Preparation Emphasis

LAPD’s focus on thorough planning before executing tactical operations.

[00:46:43] Negotiation Integration and Practice

How negotiators get extensive practice and integrate with operations.

[00:53:50] Domestic Violence Hostage Case

Detailed walkthrough of specific domestic hostage situation and response.

[01:10:41] Body Camera Impact on Training

How body-worn cameras improved tactical training and documentation.

[01:15:17] Moving Bus Hostage Incident

Complex case involving hostage situation on moving public transit.

[01:27:19] Bus Assault Tactical Planning

Specific tactical approach and team assignments for bus entry.

[01:38:41] Equipment Challenges and Adaptations

Overcoming unexpected equipment failures during critical bus operation.

[01:46:33] Multi-Point Entry Coordination

Coordinating simultaneous entry from multiple bus access points.

Description

In this episode, Jon sits down with Dr. Nathalie Pattyn, whose unique background spans medicine, psychology, research, and military operations. Dr. Pattyn discusses her unconventional career path from aspiring astronaut to emergency physician to tactical performance researcher, including her work in extreme environments like Antarctica and space research.

The conversation explores how scientific principles can improve tactical performance for law enforcement teams. Dr. Pattyn shares practical insights on decision-making under pressure, stress management, and optimizing human performance in high-stakes situations—essential knowledge for SWAT teams and tactical operators seeking evidence-based approaches to enhance their operational effectiveness.

 

Episode Information

Episode Number: Season 06, Episode 08 (Episode 64)

Episode Title: Improving Tactical Performance with Science

Guest(s): Dr Nathalie Pattyn

Air Date: December 10, 2025

Episode Length: 1:52:14

 

Guest Information

Dr Nathalie Pattyn

 

Topics Covered

[00:03:09] Dr. Pattyn’s Background and Career Path

Introduction to guest’s military and scientific background.

[00:05:52] Military Academy Decision and Goals

Why she chose military service and her objectives.

[00:08:45] Role as Military Physician

Dual responsibilities as doctor and gatekeeper for pilots.

[00:10:43] Aviation Medicine and Performance Research

Psychophysiological measurements in astronauts and fighter pilots.

[00:13:03] Transition to Tactical Operations

Shift from aviation to tactical performance research.

[00:15:29] Over-tasked and Under-resourced Units

Challenges facing modern tactical operators and organizations.

[00:20:49] Sustainable Performance vs Peak Performance

Why tactical operators need endurance, not Formula One approaches.

[00:29:55] Robustness vs Resilience Concepts

Foundation layer of robustness enables better resilience capacity.

[00:33:39] Stress Response and Recovery Cycles

How stress reactions work and importance of deactivation.

[00:41:36] Fatigue and Performance Impairment

People can’t accurately judge their own fatigue levels.

[00:46:39] Sleep Quality vs Sleep Tracking

Sleep apnea example shows tracking doesn’t equal quality.

[00:51:37] Rest During Wake Time

Incorporating rest periods is crucial for better sleep.

[01:02:32] Individual vs Organizational Responsibility

Systemic problems require organizational, not just individual solutions.

[01:09:05] Being the Whistleblower

Leadership responsibility to address unsafe operational conditions.

[01:25:49] Performance vs Health Disconnect

People can perform while unhealthy in suffering environments.

[01:47:09] Training Across Threat Spectrum

Need to practice at various intensity levels, not just comfort zones.

Description

In September of 2021 a suspect involved in a carjacking and attempted homicide led police in a vehicle pursuit that ended in a car crash in Farmington Utah. The suspect fled on foot across Interstate 15 into a residential neighborhood prompting patrol officers to establish a perimeter and begin a search with a K9 unit. During the search a single gunshot was heard, South Davis Metropolitan SWAT and North Davis Metropolitan SWAT were both activated to conduct a house-to-house search. Operators discovered a bullet hole in a residence window, and shortly after, a male exited nearby home in a vehicle. He was stopped and informed operators that his family was being held hostage and that the suspect had sent him to check for police. As operators moved toward the residence, a juvenile female escaped through a window. Debriefing the father and daughter, it became clear that three more hostages remained inside the home with an armed suspect. Negotiated side and a handgun was recovered next to his body.

My guest today is Lieutenant Andrew Smith. Andrew began his law enforcement career with the Utah Highway Patrol in 2008. In 2011, he left the highway and began working for the West Bountiful Police Department. He joined the South Davis Metropolitan SWAT team in 2012 and eventually moved to the Bountiful City Police Department in 2013, where he worked his way through various assignments and promoted to the rank of lieutenant and team commander of the South Davis Metropolitan SWAT team. Anders held numerous leadership positions in the department, including FTO, lead scout, entry team member, and assistant team leader, and is currently the South Davis Metropolitan SWAT team commander. He’s been honored with numerous unit citations as a member of the police department and SWAT team, including his involvement in two hostage rescue operations and two Bountiful City Police Department chief stars, one of which was for his response to an active shooter at a local junior high.

Episode Information
Episode Number: Season 06, Episode 06 (Episode 63)
Episode Title: Barricade Erupts into Urgent HRT When Freed Victim Returns to Hostage Taker
Guests: Joel Anderson and Bob Shaw
Air Date: November 19, 2025
Episode Length: 1:26:20

Guest Information
Joel Anderson – Tactical Commander, Washington State Patrol SWAT Team; Vice President of Washington State Tactical Officers Association
Bob Shaw – Patrol Sergeant, Pierce County Sheriff’s Department SWAT Team; Washington State Tactical Officers Association Cadre Member

Topics Covered
[00:03:04] Introduction and Team Overview — Pierce County and Washington State Patrol SWAT team structures and capabilities.

[00:08:11] The Homicide Investigation — Three-month investigation into August 2024 homicide and tracking suspect to two locations.

[00:11:40] Surveillance and Target Identification — Girlfriend drives suspect from Portland to Bremerton and opens garage.

[00:14:39] Rolling In and Initial Contact — Deploying armor with announcements; girlfriend insists suspect isn’t there.

[00:15:42] Establishing Containment — Phone ping confirms suspect still present despite denial.

[00:20:00] Discovering the Vehicle Barricade — Suspect barricaded in car inside hoarded garage.

[00:32:30] Chemical Munitions and Tactical Options — Gas deployment and planning to extract vehicle with armor.

[00:45:00] Vehicle Extraction Attempt — Pulling vehicle from garage while containing suspect.

[00:56:49] Seven-Hour Barricade Becomes Hostage Situation — Girlfriend returns; suspect takes her hostage.

[01:02:00] Shift to Hostage Rescue — Teams rapidly pivot to immediate HRT.

[01:10:00] Dynamic Entry and Rescue — Combined teams enter confined garage to rescue hostage and apprehend suspect.

[01:20:00] Lessons Learned — Multi-agency coordination and rapid transitions between mission types.

 

Contact Info

Lt Andrew Smith – asmith@bountiful.gov

 

Books

Legacy by James Kerr – ISBN-13: 978-1472103536