Episode 12 – Buddy Brown: York County South Carolina
thedebriefpod
on
October 24, 2022

Episode 12 – Buddy Brown: York County South Carolina
Time Coding
2:20 – His history and career path
3:20 – Configuration of York County Sheriff’s Office Agency and the SWAT team
5:10 – Initial call for service and search for suspect
9:00 – Ambush of dog team and Shooting of K9 Sgt. Randy Clinton
15:40 – Initial SWAT response and search
24:15 – Response to 1475 Paraham Road
30:45 – Ambush of team by suspects and shooting of three team members
35:20 – Shooting stops and suspect surrenders
39:10 – Initial medical response for injured operators
45:40 – Buddy’s Injuries
47:30 – Arrest of suspect
56:30 – Initial effects on the families
58:50 – Arrival at the hospital & treatment
1:03:00 – Buddy’s recovery
1:05:45 – Personal lessons learned
1:08:00 – Team lessons learned
1:18:50 – Aftermath and healing from the trauma of the event
Important Links
York County SO Documentary – The Many Heroes:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK7N8kvFjVfs8fzsyDgmTg6ZtbN2UpXPG
Book Recommendations
Dave Grossman – On Killing – ISBN 978-0316040938
Dave Grossman – On Combat – ISBN 978-0964920545
Paul Howe – Leadership and Training for the Fight – ISBN 978-1420889505
Jocko Willink – Discipline Equals Freedom – ISBN 978-1250156945
Contact Info
Phone: 803-230-2106
Email: buddy.brown@yorkcountygov.com
Episode 11 – Kris Allshouse: The Use of Drones in Law Enforcement
thedebriefpod
on
October 10, 2022

Episode 11 – Kris Allshouse: The Use of Drones in Law Enforcement
Guest – My guest today is Kris Allshouse. Kris is the Executive Director of The Regional Training Center (formerly LA County Regional Training Center), a nonprofit organization that provides advanced training to Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement and other first responders as well as military units and international agencies. Kris is a former tactical operator for a large Southern California agency with extensive operational experience. Under his guidance RTC/LACRTC has emerged as one of the top thought leaders and training providers for tactical use of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS) in the world.
Time Coding
1:00 – His Career Path
2:50 – The Evolution of sUAS for law enforcement
4:30 – Categories and types of sUAS and their missions
7:25 – Tactical Use of sUAS & Deescalation
11:15 – Crowd and Riot Control
13:00 – Drones and Robots and the new non-dynamic entry approach
16:34 – Regulatory challenges to sUAS
22:00 – Privacy rights, the Constitution and sUAS
26:15 – The 4th Amendment Consequences of sUAS
27:03 – Weaponizing drones
29:30 – The terrorism threat posed by sUAS
32:30 – Concerns that we are building a dystopian future with sUAS
Books Recommended
Sound Doctrine – Charles Sid Heal – ISBN 9781930051119
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People – Stephen Covey – ISBN 9780671708634
Contact Info
Kris Allshouse
kallshouse@thertc.org
17595 Mt Herrmann St.
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
Main Office: (888) 782-4969
Direct: (760) 990-1441
Cell: (816) 721-8440
Episode 10 – Dana Vilander: Tactical Medicine and Ropes Work in Modern Tactical Teams
thedebriefpod
on
September 26, 2022

Episode 10 – Dana Vilander: Tactical Medicine and Ropes Work in Modern Tactical Teams
Time Coding
1:31 – Dana’s Career Path
5:25 – LASD SEB – Emergency Services Detail
10:35 – The History of TEMS/TCCC
13:20 – The Military Research That Gave Rise to TCCC
18:12 – The Origins of Tourniquet Use
22:01 – Law Enforcement’s Beginnings with TCCC
24:20 – How to Build and Maintain a TCCC Capability
29:00 – IFAK Configuration
32:06 – Controlling Massive Hemorrhaging
37:34 – Team Based Medical Supplies & Mass Casualty Bags
41:00 – Making TCCC Training Realistic
44:35 – The Beginnings of Tactical Ropes Work
47:50 – Using Cadres to Maintain Domains of Knowledge
49:05 – Why Teams Need a Tactical Ropes Program
52:00 – Dana’s Gear Recommendations for Teams
Books Recommended
Leadership and Training for the Fight – Paul R Howe – ISBN 978-1420889505
About Face: The Odyssey of an American Warrior – Colonel David H. Hackworth and Julie Sherman – ISBN 978-0671695347
Ranger Dawn: The American Ranger from the Colonial Era to the Mexican War – Robert W. Black – ISBN 9780811736008
Contact Info
Dana Vilander –
Dana@vtctraining.com
www.vtctraining.com
Episode 9 – Chief John Perez: Securing the Rose Parade/Bowl & Authentic Leadership
thedebriefpod
on
September 14, 2022

Episode 9 – Chief John Perez: Securing the Rose Parade/Bowl & Authentic Leadership
Time Coding
1:00 – His childhood and upbringing
2:35 – How the murder of his 14 year old cousin drove his desire to be a policeman
4:41 – The beginning of his career and training
6:20 – The crimewaves of the 80s and 90s and police response
10:00 – How the Rampart scandal and war on drugs negatively impacted policing
13:12 – The origins of Pasadena PD SES (SWAT)
15:07 – 9/11 and the profound effects it had on Pasadena PD
19:20 – Securing the Rose Parade and Rose Bowl
22:45 – The effect of 9/11 on the Rose Parade and Rose Bowl
25:55 – Returning to SES as the unit Lieutenant
29:50 – Promoting out of SES to Commander
34:00 – Synthesizing being a “meat eater” with the politics of command
37:15 – How education changes your understanding and beliefs
39:15 – How losing teaches you more than winning
41:35 – Authentic leadership
45:30 – Responding to Occupy Pasadena
54:35 – Leading from your principles in a conflicted environment
1:02:00 – Balancing the tension between lawful protest & protecting the city
1:04:15 – The need to be a student of the profession
1:06:05 – Self examination and leaning from your critics
1:09:35 – How a near death experience reshaped his views
1:18:00 – Rapid Fire Questions
Books Recommended
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote for Chaos – Jordan Peterson – ISBN 0345816021
Discover Your True North – Bill George – ISBN 0787987514
Extreme Ownership: Man’s Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl – ISBN 080701429X
Quiet Strength: The Principles, Practices, and Priorities of a Winning Life – Tony Dungy – ISBN 1414318022
Contact Info
Chief John Perez (Ret)
johnperez34@me.com
Episode 8 – Toby Darby & Josh Wofford: Using Tactical Decision-Making Exercises to Improve Leadership
thedebriefpod
on
August 30, 2022

Episode 8 – Toby Darby & Josh Wofford: Using Tactical Decision-Making Exercises to Improve Leadership
Time Coding
1:02 – Their Backgrounds
2:35 – Origin Stories for the CATO Decision Making Exercises (DME)
5:45 – Anatomy of a DME – How DME’s work
8:25 – Group Structure for DMEs
12:15 – The Science Behind DMEs
15:05 – Using DMEs to Share and Retain Corporate/Agency Knowledge
18:35 – Situational Learning Theory
21:45 – Group Composition
23:55 – Challenging Confirmation Bias in Decision Making
26:30 – Using DMEs to Broaden Perspective
32:10 – Understanding “The Why” in Decision Making
35:30 – Commander’s Intent and Leadership Thinking
37:10 – Facilitating a DME – Choosing an Event
41:06 – Using DME to Stress Test Your Team
44:10 – Facilitating a DME – Roles and Responsibilities
48:44 – How DMEs Affect Culture
51:49 – Building Trust Through DMEs
55:16 – The Need for Critical Thinking in Organizational Leadership
59:50 – Using Close Calls and Body Worn Camera Footage to Create Proactive DMEs
Books Recommended
Swans, Swine, and Swindlers: Coping with the Growing Threat of Mega-Crises and Mega-Messes, Can M Alpaslan and Ian I. Mitroff – ISBN: 9780804771375
The Bass Handbook of Leadership: Theory, Research & Managerial Applications, Bernard M. Bass – ISBN: 7770957532
Thinking Collaboratively: Learning in a Community of Inquiry, D. Randy Garrison – ISBN: 9781138824317
The Checklist Manifesto: How To Get Things Right, Atul Gawande – ISBN: 9780805091748
The Laws of Human Nature, Robert Greene – ISBN: 9780525428145
Thinking Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman – ISBN: 9780374275631
Legacy: 15 Lessons in Leadership, James Kerr – ISBN: 9781472103536
The 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More With Less, Richard Koch – ISBN: 9780385491747
Situated Learning: Legitimate Peripheral Participation, Jean Lave and Etienne Wenger – ISBN: 9780521423748
Adult Learning: Linking Theory and Practice, Sharan B. Merriam and Laura L. Bierema – ISBN: 9781118416310
Six Simple Rules: How To Manage Complexity Without Getting Complicated, Yves Morieux and Peter Tollman – ISBN: 9781422190555
An Introduction to Theories of Learning, Matthew H. Olson and B.R. Hergenhahn – ISBN: 9780131147225
Leadership BS: Fixing Workplaces and Careers One Truth At A Time, Jeffrey Pfeffer – ISBN: 9780062383167
Managing the Unexpected: Sustained Performance In A Complex World, Karl E. Weick and Kathleen M. Sutcliffe – ISBN: 9780787996499
Contact Info
Capt. Toby Darby
tdarby@catotraining.org
Lt. Josh Wofford
jwofford@catotraining.org
Episode 7 – Mike Hillman Part 2 of 2: The History of SWAT
thedebriefpod
on
August 17, 2022

Episode 7 – Mike Hillman Part 2 of 2: The History of SWAT
Guest – My Guest Today is Mike Hillman. Mike is a legend in the tactical community with a list of career accomplishments that would take an entire podcast of their own. But as a brief bio he was one of the original founders of LAPD SWAT, a Deputy Chief at LAPD, the Assistant Sheriff in Orange County California and a Chief of Police for the Los Angeles Port Police. He was one of the founders of the National Tactical Officers Association, headed security for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and is a nationally recognized expert on leadership, crisis management, critical incident management, special operations and a wide variety of other subjects.
Time Coding
2:09 – Objectives of an Effective Leader
4:05 – The Need for Introspection
6:38 – Having a Core Guiding Principle
8:05 – The Roots of Decisiveness
10:00 – Selfless Approaches to Leadership
11:40 – Leadership in Crisis
15:01 – The Willingness to Change Your Mind
18:04 – Characteristics of Good Leaders
19:30 – Humility and Change Leadership
22:13 – Making Cultural Changes
26:11 – Leading in The Modern Environment
28:15 – Selection Process and Picking the Right People
31:45 – Policing in the Current Social Environment
34:30 – The Constitution v. Our Safety
37:15 – Differentiating Between the Need For Training And Discipline
40:30 – Actions, Intent and The Media
43:30 – Social Media And Law Enforcement
46:38 – Militarization of Law Enforcement
51:19 – Proactivity: Intervening Early or Creating a Problem
52:30 – Bad Tactics or Bad Technology
54:45 – Defining SWAT and Their Mission Set
58:03 – How Do Small Agencies Avoid Issues with Their SWAT Team
1:01:00 – Requirements v. Equipment Understanding Your Needs
1:04:45 – Rapid Fire Questions
Links and Books Referenced
Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps’ Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life by Patrick Van Horne, Jason Riley, Shawn Coyne – ISBN 1936891301
Contact Info
Mike Hillmann
Mrhntoa@aol.com
Episode 6 – Mike Hillman Part 1 of 2: The History of SWAT
thedebriefpod
on
August 2, 2022

Episode 6 – Mike Hillman Part 1 of 2: The History of SWAT
Guest – My Guest Today is Mike Hillman. Mike is a legend in the tactical community with a list of career accomplishments that would take an entire podcast of their own. But as a brief bio he was one of the original founders of LAPD SWAT, a Deputy Chief at LAPD, the Assistant Sheriff in Orange County California and a Chief of Police for the Los Angeles Port Police. He was one of the founders of the National Tactical Officers Association, headed security for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and is a nationally recognized expert on leadership, crisis management, critical incident management, special operations and a wide variety of other subjects.
Time Coding
1:45 – Mike’s Background
4:05 – The beginnings of LAPD D Platoon (SWAT)
5:35 – Defining Events – International Terrorism, Homegrown Terrorist, & the 1970s
11:12 – The Origins of Crisis Negotiation & LAPDs Approach
17:19 – Development of Hostage Negotiation Tactics
22:20 – 1984 Summer Olympics & Development of SWAT
31:02 – The Evolution of Flashbangs
33:54 – Developing Bus Assaults Tactics
37:22 – Intelligence Gathering, Pre-scouting, and DARPA Surrogate Travel
40:45 – Hanafi Muslim Incident Effect on Tactics (Fast Roping & Aerial Platform)
43:19 – Founding of the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA)
45:14 – The Rock House Epidemic in LA & Origins of Armored Vehicles
47:30 – Law Enforcement & the Military (Demilitarization?)
51:22 – The 1980s and the NTOA
55:10 – Being a Student of the Game – The Need for Research & Study
58:12 – What Makes a Good SWAT Operator
Links and Books Referenced
Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps’ Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life by Patrick Van Horne, Jason Riley, Shawn Coyne – ISBN 1936891301
Contact Info
Mike Hillmann
Mrhntoa@aol.com
Episode 5 – Ed Hinchey: Surviving and Recovering After Being Shot
thedebriefpod
on
July 19, 2022

Episode 5 – Ed Hinchey: Surviving and Recovering After Being Shot
Guest – My guest today is Ed Hinchey, a retired Sgt. with the Forest Hills Pennsylvania Police Department. Ed is the survivor of a violent shooting while on-duty who was saved by his soft body armor. After retirement Ed became the Director of the Safariland Saves Program. In his capacity as Saves Director, Ed’s job is working with officers who have been shot in the line of duty and saved by their armor. As a result, Ed has likely interacted with more officers shot in the line of duty than anyone in the world. In this interview, Ed discusses witnessing his partner being shot, the first failure of soft body armor by a round it was designed to stop, surviving his own shooting, the aftermath of a shooting, the effects on the officer and their family, as well as the NIJ armor standards past and present. Ed also discusses how to best prepare officers for shootings and how to help them after a shooting occurs.
Time Coding
1:30 – Ed’s Background
2:06 – 6/23/03 – The Edward Limbacher Shooting
4:55 – The NIJ Armor Standards and How They Have Changed
7:05 – Armor Failure – The Zylon Recall and The Old NIJ Standards
11:00 – Frustrations with the Armor Industry
13:23 – The Chronology of Ed’s Shooting
20:50 – His Injuries
26:30 – Arrival at the Hospital & Initial Treatment
33:00 – Surgery & Recovery
38:10 – Effects on the Family
45:30 – Community Reaction & News Media
51:14 – Retirement from Law Enforcement
57:04 – Starting His Second Career with Safariland
1:02:10 – Keys to Surviving a Shooting
1:07:15 – Going Beyond the Academy
1:20:45 – Why Armor Saves Lives
1:25:39 – Behind the Armor – Training Armor
1:30:17 – Mindset and Survival
1:33:14 – Social Media and Survivors
Links and Books Referenced
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius – ISBN 048629823X
The Man in the Arena: Selected Writings by Theodore Roosevelt – ISBN13: 9780765306715
Theodore Roosevelt on Leadership: Executive Lessons from the Bully Pulpit by James Strock – ISBN 0761515399
NIJ Armor Standards – https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/body-armor-performance-standards
Safariland Saves – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIM58xG6QM4flerbP6IU9qgXf7VJ5ZgJ7
Contact Info
Ed HincheySave #941Safariland Saves Program Ed.hinchey@safariland.com
Episode 4 – Brent Stratton and Marcus Sprague: The California Association of Tactical Officers and The Doctrine of Tactical Science
thedebriefpod
on
July 6, 2022

Episode 4 – Brent Stratton and Marcus Sprague: The California Association of Tactical Officers and The Doctrine of Tactical Science
Guest – My guests today are the hosts of the very successful California Association of Tactical Officers (CATO) Podcast, Brent Stratton and Marcus Sprague. Brent is the Assistant Chief at a Southern California Police Department and the President of the California Tactical Officers Association (CATO). Marcus is a recently retired Lieutenant at a Northern California PD and the Vice President of CATO. Both Brent and Marcus are graduates of the CARO Strategic Leadership Program.
Time Coding
1:05 – Marcus’s background (CATO and SWAT)
2:55 – Brent’s background (CATO and SWAT)
6:52 – The Evolution of CATO
10:00 – Role of CATO and regional associations
12:45 – Hot topics in California
15:00 – CATO’s role in helping defining mission-readiness
17:30 – The importance of identifying areas for improvement
19:30 – The need for debriefs and lessons learned
24:10 – Understanding the why in training
30:45 – CATO Decision Making Exercises
36:55 – Anecdotal evidence vs hard data in law enforcement
41:00 – Transparency and the gap in the story about law enforcement
51:10 – Origin of CATO Podcast
1:00:50 – The Future of CATO
1:09:04 – How to contact CATO (and the power of the community)
1:13:04 – How to join or become involved with CATO
Links and Books Referenced
Field Command by Sid Heal
Sound Doctrine: A Tactical Primer by Sid Heal
Contact Info
CATO Website – catonews.org
CATO Podcast on Apple Podcasts
Marcus Sprague – vp@catonews.org
Brent Stratton – president@catonews.org